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Why renovating might be your best move for your first home

Jo Vadillo is the Director of Advocate Property Services and Property Women. She works as a Buyer’s Agent, Investment Strategist, and Property Coach to help everyone achieve their goal of owning property. She started her career buying, renovating, and selling houses and wants to help others do the same.

In this episode, Jo runs us through how renovations can add value to a property, some tips for speeding up the renovation process, and why it’s so important to educate yourself about property. She’ll also answer the big question: “Is house flipping worth it in Australia?”

Jo Vadillo is the Director of Advocate Property Services and Property Women. She works as a Buyer’s Agent, Investment Strategist, and Property Coach to help everyone achieve their goal of owning property. She started her career buying, renovating, and selling houses and wants to help others do the same.

In this episode, Jo runs us through how renovations can add value to a property, some tips for speeding up the renovation process, and why it’s so important to educate yourself about property. She’ll also answer the big question: “Is house flipping worth it in Australia?”

Episode Outline

00:00Disclaimer 00:16Introduction 01:37Getting to know Jo Vadillo 03:28What put buyers agent on the map 05:42Why will a property need renovating 07:26What do first home buyers need to look for if they are considering property that needs renovating 10:23Preparing for renos 14:44The process of renovating 17:16Is house flipping recommended for first home buyers? 19:28Avoiding playing the “small game” in property 21:29What is Property Women? 24:24Benefits of engaging educational programs or seminars for first home buyers? 26:59Jo’s No. 1 tip for first home buyers 28:57What Jo wishes she knew before she bought her first property 30:04How to get in touch with Jo Vadillo

Show Notes

Jo Vadillo is the Director of Advocate Property Services and Property Women. She works as a Buyer’s Agent, Investment Strategist, and Property Coach to help everyone achieve their goal of owning property. She started her career buying, renovating, and selling houses and wants to help others do the same.

In this episode, Jo runs us through how renovations can add value to a property, some tips for speeding up the renovation process, and why it’s so important to educate yourself about property. She’ll also answer the big question: “Is house flipping worth it in Australia?”

Get in touch with Jo Vadillo

Director of Advocate Property Services and Property Women

She works as a Buyer’s Agent, Investment Strategist, and Property Coach to help everyone achieve their goal of owning property.



Michael 0:00
The information contained in this podcast is general in nature and is not to be taken as financial or personal advice.

Michael 0:06
It does not consider your objectives, financial situation or needs.

Michael 0:10
You should consider whether this information is suitable for you and your personal circumstances before acting on it.

Michael 0:17
Hi and welcome to the home, run your guide to buying your first home in Australia.

Michael 0:21
On the show, I’ll walk you through the home buying process from every angle.

Michael 0:24
We cover steps to take the pitfalls to avoid and the answers to all your questions.

Michael 0:28
You’ve been dying to ask no matter what stage you’re at, you’ll learn everything you need to know about buying your first home.

Michael 0:35
I’m your host, Michael Nasser and I’m a mortgage broker at Len Street and I really love helping people buy their first home.

Michael 0:45

Michael 0:45
I’m chatting with Jo Badillo.

Michael 0:47
Jo is the director of Advocate Property Services where she works as an investment strategist buyers agent and property coach.

Michael 0:54
Her journey started when she attended a seminar hosted by property women which helped her find her passion in real estate.

Michael 1:02
Two decades later, she runs property women and is committed to providing no nonsense advice to anybody looking to get onto the property ladder and take control of their financial future for first home buyers.

Michael 1:14
Renovations are a fact of life in this episode, we’re getting the lowdown on Renaults.

Michael 1:20
Jo will share her advice for first home buyers who have a property that needs some TLC.

Michael 1:25
She’ll expand on the importance of educating herself about property and Jo will answer the big question is house flipping worth it in Australia.

Michael 1:33
Let’s jump in Jo.

Michael 1:37
Welcome to the show.

Jo 1:39
What a pleasure to be here.

Jo 1:40
I really appreciate it.

Jo 1:40

Michael 1:41
Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jo 1:43
I am a buyer’s agent and I have been in the industry now for just over 12 years.

Jo 1:49
So I was very much one of the first buyer’s agents in Australia and probably one of the first five females that were doing it.

Jo 1:55
And the first few years of running our business, people were asking me, what, what’s a buyer’s agent?

Jo 1:59
Why would you need help buying a property?

Jo 2:01
But you know, we use experts to help us sell our properties yet amateurs and first-time buyers and people who really have no idea how to navigate the market buy and sometimes make some sketchy or poor decisions because they’re coming from a place of just being new to the game really.

Jo 2:17
And I love property very much.

Jo 2:18
I’ve been investing now for over 20 years and for me to become a buyer’s agent was like a natural flow and almost an organic flow.

Jo 2:25
I was already doing the work pro bono for friends and family.

Michael 2:28
And how, how did you get into it?

Michael 2:29
Did you always have a passion for property or was it something that just happened naturally or were you looking for it in particular?

Jo 2:35
You know what I think it is.

Jo 2:36
It was when I first bought my, my first property looking at property, understanding the market, looking for how I can add value.

Jo 2:43
And then back then there was a few renovation shows on TV.

Jo 2:46
I think the block might have done its first run and things like that and, and then I was like, wow, like you can buy something ugly, make it pretty and then add extra zeros to the back end.

Jo 2:56
Like it’s to me, it was like an amazing malleable platform for to grow your wealth.

Jo 3:00
And I was working in corporate at the time, I didn’t love my job to make more money.

Jo 3:04
You have to work harder.

Jo 3:05
But property is just one of those things that, you know, you play your cards, right?

Jo 3:08
And you grow your wealth and capital growth does a lot of heavy lifting for you as well.

Michael 3:13
Yeah, I think the important there that you mentioned is play your cards, right?

Michael 3:16
And I think that’s where buyers agents come in in terms of the value that they can bring.

Michael 3:20
It’s assisting people that probably don’t know what they need.

Michael Michael 3:22
To be looking for, to be focusing on those specific items so that they are playing those cards, right, in terms of, something you’ve touched on there.

Michael 3:29
And I guess the theme that what we were gonna be talking about when it comes to renovations and, and the block is probably a good example of a program that a lot of people that are excited or thinking about purchasing their first time or getting into it and potentially creating wealth out of it as well.

Michael 3:42
They’ll look at were those programs the one that sort of put buy agents on the map because now they’re becoming more mainstream.

Jo 3:45
I think for the Australian market, I think maybe possibly that was the platform, you know, when they have the auctions and they’re like, who are these professionals in the room that are bidding on behalf of someone else?

Jo 3:56
So perhaps from a mainstream viewpoint, it did and it made it more of a household terminology and people understood the industry and, but in America, it’s my understanding that it’s been that’s, that is such a commonplace way of buying property.

Jo 4:09
However, I mean, they’re, they’re also charging something like 6% when they sell.

Jo 4:14
And I don’t think you pay your buyer’s agent over there, they actually get 50% of the agent’s commission.

Jo 4:19
So it’s a little bit of a different structure like it’s a fee for service in, in this stock market.

Jo 4:23
But you think about the outlay of you working with a buyer’s agent, they should be not only saving you their fees but saving you from buying lemons, buying properties that are gonna wind up costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars to realize there’s ad approval for a boarding house that’s gonna be built next door.

Jo 4:38
And there’s a lot of things that it’s my zone are genius but it’s not everybody’s, I’ve had clients of mine have been surgeons, that’s their expertise.

Michael 4:46
Yeah, time-poor in particular, as well as obviously the insights that you get by engaging a professional that does this day in day out.

Michael 4:53
And I always say to first home buyers when I’m speaking to them, when you’re going in and speaking to a real estate agent, they’re doing this day in day out, they’re selling properties, you know, week in week out and then you’re going in for the first time and it’s very much a David and Goliath kind of battle there.

Michael 5:06
And to think that you’re gonna go in there and be able to outsmart or to get the best out of the negotiation.

Michael 5:11
And this is only one factor of what a buyer’s agent could do.

Michael 5:14
It’s inevitable that it’s not balanced.

Michael 5:16
And so having a buyer’s agent onside definitely helps level that particular negotiation process as well.

Michael 5:22
One thing that you really sort of specialise in and focus on is the renovation aspect and I guess maybe helping manufacture some wealth for a lot of first-home buyers, their first purchase is not usually their dream home and it means that the properties that they buy will need renovation either at the beginning or some, at some point soon after they move in, you started your own property journey by renovating and selling houses.

Michael 5:42
Why might a property need renovating, in your opinion?

Jo 5:45
Oh, look, I mean, it could be just cosmetic and bringing it up to a standard.

Jo 5:49
That’s the way we live life today.

Jo 5:50
Like at old homes 100 years ago they didn’t have open floor plans.

Jo 5:54
So plumbing’s dated the powers a bit sketchy.

Jo 5:57
There’s a lot of reasons why you, you’d need to renovate a property.

Jo 5:59
And as you mentioned, the first home is often not the dream home for very few people actually do.

Jo 6:05
Now, that one, but when I look for a client for renovations, I take and I interview my clients quite forensically, I want to understand how much money they’ve got over and above because, you know, there’s obviously, you know, a cost that comes with doing renovations, their skill set, their stage of life.

Jo 6:21
You know, if they’ve got two young kids, it’s gonna renovation can be really tricky to do that when they’ve got, you know, depending on what their stage of life is.

Jo 6:28
If it’s an investment property, their proximity to the property.

Jo 6:32
So I take, bought a lot of these factors when we’re looking at renovations and what I try to look for Michael is properties that have got amazing, good bones, you know, like it’s a good structure.

Jo 6:41
They don’t have to do anything too much heavy lifting with the actual structure of the property because that can really take up a lot of your budget.

Jo 6:47
I like houses that, you know, if you just paint everything a certain color, like it’s a uniform color, you change out the, the light fittings and you change out the doorknobs and you can modernise the house very easily.

Jo 6:58
It’s a house that perhaps the facade like I, I’m in the process right now with a client who’s purchased and it’s a 1992 brown brick property in a coastal area.

Jo 7:07
So we’re talking to him about and he’s got quotes to paint the facade, paint the brick white and it’s $12,000 inside and out.

Jo 7:14
So it’s actually quite a good price for him.

Jo 7:16
But it’s going to lift the value of this property like just the curb appeal, phenomenally.

Jo 7:22
It’s an amazing value add for this particular investor.

Michael 7:25

Michael 7:26
What do people need to look for then?

Michael 7:28
And what would a first home buyer need to look for if they’re considering buying a property that needs renovating?

Michael 7:32
So obviously, in this instance, the mindset is we’re gonna try and buy something that we can pick up for a little bit better value.

Michael 7:38
Perhaps there is gonna be some renovations you’ve alluded to the fact that there’s probably different type of renovations that need to be done.

Michael 7:44
There’s obviously a budget and from what I gather, you wanna pick up a property that doesn’t require so much renovations, but doing those renovations like that paint job, inside and outside, which is gonna do a lot more than whatever it may be in terms of a lot more labor intensive or costly.

Michael 7:58
So when someone, a first home buyer is looking at a property, is there certain things they should be looking for or what are the things that they need to consider when they’re doing that inspection or checking the property out other than obviously using a service like yours, which is gonna help them massively.

Michael 8:10
If they’re doing it on their own, what sort of tips could we give them?

Jo 8:12
Yeah, I think have a look at the curb.

Jo 8:14
A pill, the property where it sits on the block.

Jo 8:16
Is it, is it a dark block?

Jo 8:17
Is it if it’s got beautiful natural light?

Jo 8:19
Is that something that you can open the property for?

Jo 8:21
If it’s an older house?

Jo 8:22
Sometimes that light isn’t great.

Jo 8:24
But, you know, it’s so easy to put skylights in as well when you’re looking, depending on what your budget is, perhaps the kitchen is 20 years old.

Jo 8:32
And if you were to just paint the facade of the cupboards for now and then once your budget builds up a little bit more, then you can come back at it with a, a really big gut and redo of the kitchen, kitchens and bathrooms will sell a property straight up like every, every day of the week.

Jo 8:46
But they are expensive to renovate.

Jo 8:48
They really are.

Jo 8:49
So, depending again, on your budget, I think if you can see that it could be lifted by paint, everything white.

Jo 8:55
I know that’s that sort of cliched rule of thumb.

Jo 8:57
But a neutral paint scheme inside, if it’s got dated carpet, you know what’s underneath the carpet, perhaps have a look at it hasn’t got floorboards that haven’t been taken into consideration.

Jo 9:07
It’s amazing when you start to peel back an older home.

Jo 9:10
It’s like, why would they have carpeted hardwood flooring?

Jo 9:12
I love high ceilings.

Jo 9:14
So, you know, if you buy a house with a really low ceiling, you can’t really do much with that, but you can really add a lot of value to properties when you take into consideration.

Jo 9:21
You know, if it’s an older home and it’s got a beautiful ceiling or you can, you can also, retrofit cornices and things like that.

Jo 9:28
So, you know, for a first home buyer really, it is its location always.

Jo 9:32
It’s the natural light of the property.

Jo 9:34
Are you encroached?

Jo 9:35
Because you’ve got a block of units next door, that’s something that’s never gonna change.

Jo 9:39
So you gotta take that into consideration and even just looking at the property from the exterior viewpoint, I’ve bought properties that have been in the same family for 60 years without so much as one tree on the entire land.

Jo 9:49
It’s like, you know, all this lost opportunity.

Jo 9:52
So people forget landscaping just makes such a big difference as well.

Jo 9:56
A lot of homes, they just got a flat backyard, no trees and one little hills like a hills hoist.

Jo 10:01
And there’s cement slabs that walk out to the, the clothes line.

Jo 10:05
It’s a little lax character, but that’s, to me is an opportunity that we, we need a barbecue area here.

Jo 10:10
We need to bring, you know, the inside, outside as well.

Jo 10:13
And that’s if it’s a small house, that’s an amazing way of opening up your living and your lability of being there.

Michael 10:19
And adding that value as well, I think, which is a critical part.

Michael 10:22

Michael 10:22
So let’s assume we’ve identified a property that has these potentials that you’ve mentioned.

Michael 10:27
What are the, some of the first steps to preparing to renovate?

Michael 10:30
I guess, like we’ve identified that we’ve got a property and let’s just say we’re lucky enough to purchase it or even not purchase it.

Michael 10:35
We’re very close to being serious contenders to purchase it, but we need to prep for the renaults.

Michael 10:39
What type of things should we be considering at that point?

Jo 10:42
How functional is the house as it is?

Jo 10:44
And again, how much budget have you got?

Jo 10:46
So some things you can live with for a long time, you can tolerate, you know, a 1935 vintage bathroom for a bit because they’re always made really well, but they’re dated, they’re poky and they’re not necessarily stylish.

Jo 10:58
If you’ve got the budget, you can do a lot of planning during that settlement period.

Jo 11:02
And here’s like a tip.

Jo 11:03
You know, when you negotiate on your property, obviously, your terms and conditions are just as important as the offer on the table.

Jo 11:10
And there’s been a number of times I haven’t been the top offer, but I’ve provided the best terms for the vendor’s needs and it surprises the agent as well.

Jo 11:19
So for example, if you’re buying a property off, an older couple, they’ve been there for 40 years, you know, it’s very emotionally harrowing for them to make this move.

Jo 11:26
They probably raised their family there.

Jo 11:28
You could negotiate a longer settlement offer them eight weeks, offer them 10 weeks, you know, whatever it might need to be to give them a longer settlement window.

Jo 11:35
And then during that settlement window, that’s when you can do a lot of planning.

Jo 11:38
And you can also put your special conditions in the contract requesting that you can come back through a couple of times to get some quotes so that if you know for a fact that you’re gonna have to replace the carpet, the minute you own the property and that therefore you are unable to move in until it’s done.

Jo 11:51
If you settle on the 20th of the month, the 21st, your team comes in, you’re off and running, you’re not, you don’t have the holding costs.

Jo 11:57
You’re not sitting there waiting around and twiddling your thumbs and paying rent while you’re still waiting for the work to be done.

Jo 12:02
So, you know, there’s a couple of easy strategies like that.

Jo 12:04
So if you can, when you can use that settlement window to do all your shopping and price check and marketplace.

Jo 12:10
And you know, there’s a lot you can do and get to really be familiar with looking at Pinterest.

Jo 12:15
And there’s so many other little renovation groups out there and ask questions like I’ve just bought this, how do I make the facade prettier?

Jo 12:22
I hate this front door.

Jo 12:24
What you know, so there’s a lot you can do and I think it’s about really becoming an expert in your own due diligence.

Michael 12:29
One point that I’ve taken out of what you just mentioned is identify what you can live with for a short period of time and needs to be changed from you, I guess a livability point of view for yourself.

Michael 12:38
And if there are some big ticket items and the budget isn’t allowing for it, then obviously just schedule it.

Michael 12:42
I mean to be done at a particular point in time after being able to categorize those sort of, you know, must haves nice to haves can assist in terms of that planning out and definitely making use of that settlement period to get in and get some quotes I think it is definitely something that’s gonna be able to assist buyers when they’re preparing and planning to renovate.

Jo 12:58
And can I just add with when you’re buying to a property to renovate it?

Jo 13:02
Because I have this conversation with some clients that they want to cut corners?

Jo 13:06
They’re like, are we gonna renovate it?

Jo 13:07
So we don’t need to do a pest and building report.

Jo 13:09
Please do a pest and building report.

Jo 13:10
I think it’s really, really important because when you can line up and be there at the same time, it’s done and you can say, look, I’m looking to buy this property.

Jo 13:18
I am a little bit concerned about this room or that part of the roof or I’m thinking of taking that window out and making it to the door, the person, the person, they’re an expert, they could say to you, look, I don’t think that’s gonna hold, I think you need to do Xy and Z.

Jo 13:30
So leverage off this opportunity while they’re out there and just be mindful of the property’s riddled with mold or it’s got really big damp issues that can sink a lot of money trying to rectify that problem.

Jo 13:41
So that’s something to be watching on.

Michael 13:42
What I’d probably add to that as well is you don’t necessarily have to let the agent know that you’re gonna be doing the innovations and if there is some issues on the building and pest, then you can use that I guess as a negotiation strategy with them not knowing that you need to.

Michael 13:54
And I’ve got an example where we had a client that we were helping out with the loan and they were intending to remove the patio and all that sort of stuff.

Michael 14:00
They did a building and pest and they found some issues with the patio, which effectively needed to mean it had to be replaced.

Michael 14:05
Now they were gonna replace it anyway, but they didn’t let the agent know that.

Michael 14:09
And they went in and said, listen, we’re gonna have to replace this and they’ve then used that as a negotiation strategy now, whether it’s e the 100% right ID, ID, it’s not for me to, to say yes or no, but they were able to then use to use that as a little bit of a negotiation tool that assisted them in getting a little bit off the purchase price that they were negotiating.

Michael 14:24
So I guess that maybe can be something that can be utilised as well, potentially a little bit different, I guess, but maybe some relevance there, potentially dealing with people that know and their experience with that will, will allow.

Michael 14:33
And this is where you men and you mentioned earlier where a buyers agent can actually save you money.

Michael 14:37
And they’re the sort of little tips and tricks that can be done that can assist you in that regard.

Michael 14:41
So you’re currently renovating your home with a full knockdown and rebuild, I believe.

Michael 14:45
How’s that process been for you?

Jo 14:46
I have like, I’ve been doing this for over 20 years in terms of an investor and the learning never stops, it never stops.

Jo 14:53
There’s no cookie cutter.

Jo 14:54
There’s a different phases and stages.

Jo 14:56
And this process of our knockdown rebuild in Sydney has been overlapping lockdown, delayed, then gone to council and the council has given me a flame zone rating and then I’ve had to fight that to and when I fought it and I won, I’d saved me $250,000.

Jo 15:13
So that would be quite worth fighting.

Jo 15:15
It’s been a, you know, one of the biggest things is an, an absolute exercise in patience and understanding the industry, the building industry is still recovering.

Jo 15:23
So whilst I understand the delays and all the rest, it, it can be very frustrating, you know, and it’s one of those things for me, it’s like it’s part of the journey, but I am also building a property in Brisbane at the moment as well.

Jo 15:36
An investment property, a dual key.

Michael 15:38

Michael 15:38
And how is that managing a, a build when you’re not based in Brisbane?

Michael 15:42
Is that how’s that to manage?

Jo 15:43
Look, I know the builder really well and I, I actually did a property development.

Jo 15:47
I split the A block I already owned, it was 1000 square meters.

Jo 15:51
It’s got a relatively, actually, it needs renovation, the cottage at the front of the block and I split off 600 square meters at the rear and I’m building this three plus two.

Jo 15:59
So it means I’ve got two tenants under the one roof line, dual key.

Jo 16:02
And, and again, that one’s another one that’s been delayed.

Jo 16:06
It was meant to be finished, you know, a month ago, it’s gonna be finished in a month’s time.

Jo 16:10
And for people who are looking to buy property, you’ve got to really make sure you as you approach festive seasons and things like that.

Jo 16:17
I don’t want the, I want to make sure I’ve got a tenant on board.

Jo 16:19
So and I do this for my clients who are investors.

Jo 16:22
If we know when your settlements coming up, we want to start marketing for a tenant.

Jo 16:26
So again, minimising your holding costs and outlays unless you do want to renovate and quickly, you know, tart the property up a little bit more.

Jo 16:32
But that’s something that for me, I don’t want to run into a festive period or summer holidays or something like that without having tenants on board.

Jo 16:40
To me that I don’t like dead air.

Jo 16:41
I want it filled.

Michael 16:43

Michael 16:43
And, and I guess that that full knockdown rebuild is a pretty as you’ve alluded to epic adventure.

Michael 16:48
And the term I, I like to use a lot is every day is a school day.

So it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter how, how, how many times or whatever it may be, every day is a school day and there’s always something to be learned.

Michael 16:56
So, but I guess that that in itself is a massive challenge and probably not something the first-time buyers are gonna be looking to do to begin with, but something that they might be doing and I guess a term that we see and hear a lot is and whether it’s through TV shows like the block and the like that we’ve already mentioned is this term house flipping where a person buys a cheap property, makes minor changes and then sells it for significantly more for a first home buyer.

Michael 17:17
Do you see this concept of house flipping as something that they should seriously consider?

Michael 17:22
Or would you steer people away from that for the first day? You know, as a first home buyer.

Jo 17:27
I’d steer people away from a, from a tax perspective as well.

Jo 17:28
Like the flipping formula is, and especially in a market that not necessarily showing in the immediate future, any, any epic size growth.

Jo 17:36
Unless you really know what you’re doing.

Jo 17:37
You’ve got a team on your hands probably experience because there’s a lot of costs.

Jo 17:41
You know, you do have stamp duty.

Jo 17:43
You’ve got capital gains tax, you’ve got your selling costs, you’ve got your renovation costs, the holding costs.

Jo 17:47
If you don’t time it correctly or do it well, or keep within your budget, you might actually find that you’re not gonna make money at all.

Jo 17:54
So if you go into that, have that exit strategy that perhaps I may need to hold it for longer than planned.

Jo 17:59
And also there is merit in holding a property for more than 12 months from a capital gains tax or minimising your capital gains tax as well.

Jo 18:06
And this is what I say to my clients.

Jo 18:07
I’m not an accountant.

Jo 18:08
I can’t give you financial advice, but you need to check in with your accountant.

Jo 18:11
Can you claim for this, this, this and if you sell then is there GST you know, there’s all these myriad of different things, you need to be checking, you know, making sure along the way that you’re not gonna and there’s land tax, you don’t know what you don’t know until you get a phone call from the ato sometimes.

Jo 18:26
But the flipping formula, what I did wasn’t so much the flip.

Jo 18:29
I actually added value to our property and then we withdrew equity from the property where we held most of the properties.

Jo 18:37
We’ve had to sell along the way because I was selling it to upgrade family home.

Jo 18:43
I was selling it to fund the property to property developments that I did.

Jo 18:46
So I was selling to make more money effectively.

Jo 18:50
But yeah, pulling that equity out of the property is how we build our portfolio.

Michael 18:53
Yeah, and that’s then getting into, I guess the complications or, or the intricacies of it as well.

Michael 18:57
But I guess it’s a concept too.

Michael 18:58
I’d be with you and, and house flipping is not probably something a first home buyer should be considering the majority of the growth that they’re hopefully gonna realise is gonna be in the capital growth over a period of time, time, which is a pretty steady and consistent concept, but is one that takes time.

Michael 19:10
I think the housekeeping concept is probably a dream for most.

Michael 19:14
But unless you know what you’re doing with experience and your first one, you generally don’t have the experience.

Michael 19:18
It’s probably not gonna be something that’s gonna end as well as you probably initially intended it to, you said in the past that you wanna help embolden people to stop playing the small game or a small game when it comes to property.

Michael 19:29
What does that mean?

Jo 19:30
Yeah, I think if it’s in the context of just to get started I think is that’s probably something I’m, I’m a big advocate for because the reasons people this is, I’m talking about my friends here.

Jo 19:41
So I’m gonna throw them in the, in the mix, throw, throw them under the bus.

Jo 19:45
Oh, I’m not gonna invest until I pay off my family home.

Jo 19:48
It’s like, ok, good luck with that.

Jo 19:50
What else is it?

Jo 19:50
Oh, I’m gonna wait till the youngest kid finishes high school.

Jo 19:53
You know, see people make these sort of really not smart business decisions.

Jo 19:58
It’s like that doesn’t make economic sense.

Jo 19:59
10 years ago, I could have bought a lot more with a million dollars than I can today.

Jo 20:03
It’s the whole idea and people get very fearful of leveraging off a bank’s money, but that’s a good debt to have and use it.

Jo 20:09
Like, don’t, I mean, for me, I’m not paying off my family home.

Jo 20:12
I’m pulling equity out of it and growing my portfolio.

Jo 20:15
That’s my end game.

Jo 20:16
I’m just, I’m always building and, and acquiring more properties because I mean, not only is my passion but it’s also, that’s how we decide to focus on our wealth creation as a family unit.

Jo 20:26
So don’t play a small game, get started, just don’t overanalyze things to the point where you actually don’t make a decision at all.

Jo 20:33
I’ve even had this from some of my female friends where they wanted to wait until they had a partner and one I didn’t ii I was dating dating.

Jo 20:41
It sounds so American dating my husband at the time.

Jo 20:44
I bought my first property, but I’m so happy.

Jo 20:47
And in retrospect that I did that for myself, just don’t play a small game.

Jo 20:51
Don’t wait for a, you know, a knight in shining armor to come along and, and help you.

Jo 20:55
You know, if you’re sitting there and you’re thinking and wondering, get on with it.

Michael 20:59

Michael 20:59
And I like that reference.

Michael 21:00
It’s, it’s about the end game and obviously, what’s, that’s clear to you in terms of what your end game is and then you’re able to play the game, I guess in the way that is helping you achieve your end game.

Michael 21:08
And it should be more focusing on the small game.

Michael 21:10
But the end game, that’s something that, that can you can do obviously.

Michael 21:13
And some people that can’t need to then seek maybe advice and some guidance as to how to do that because they, there is a way and it’s about finding people that can help you light that path effectively.

Michael 21:22
So in addition to running your business, you’re also the managing director of Property Women, but it was an important part of your property journey as well before that.

Michael 21:29
What is property women?

Michael 21:30
Can you explain that program and, and what that’s about?

Jo 21:33
Ok, so 2009, I had a baby, I think I might have been pregnant or I had just had a relatively newborn child and I love property, but none of my friends wanted to talk about it.

Jo 21:42
I just wanted to be in that space and I literally googled women in property or some sort of combination of words and long and behold in two days, this event was taking place in Sydney.

Jo 21:51

Jo 21:51
Prices were hugely expensive back in the day where, you know, people actually paid to sit and learn and I took a punt on myself, went into this space.

Jo 22:00
And I mean, honestly, it’s one of those things, it was like $900 or something like that at the time again.

Jo 22:05
It was a big ticket price for 2009.

Jo 22:07
It changed my life.

Jo 22:08
Like, I’ve made millions on the back of that education and who I met in the room that day, who are still friends of mine, the speakers.

Jo 22:15
I remember the accountant was coming up and I thought to myself, oh, this, this would be boring.

Jo 22:18
And it was eye-opening like, oh my gosh, there’s tax benefits.

Jo 22:21
And I didn’t understand how equity worked.

Jo 22:24
And it was just incredible like the, the information I took from that transformed my future.

Jo 22:29
And I stayed in contact with the group when I retrained and became a buyers agent.

Jo 22:33
They, they started to ask for me to speak at their events.

Jo 22:37
And 2015, the sole director remaining director in the group said, look, you know, I’m ready to, to move along.

Jo 22:43
And would you be interested in buying the business?

Jo 22:45
And absolutely was the answer.

Jo 22:48
It’s so it is an educational platform.

Jo 22:50
It’s obviously skewed to women.

Jo 22:51
We do have men in the group as well.

Jo 22:53
And a lot of women have got fantastic partners and, and that are very supportive of their journey as well, but it’s education, it’s connect, it’s like an interview.

Jo 23:00
You know, if you need to work with a professional, like who’s a good accountant, who’s a good solicitor.

Jo 23:04
I need a selling agent in Brisbane.

Jo 23:06
I need a selling agent in Adelaide.

Jo 23:07
I help people connect them with those right?

Jo 23:09
People that can then help them on their journey.

Jo 23:11
And we also have an online course that’s designed for first home buyers.

Jo 23:16
So it’s called the buyer’s advantage.

Jo 23:18
And that’s there because the people who really need a buyer’s agent support are first time buyers or first time investors.

Jo 23:25
And it is a considered expense and sometimes that’s going to erode budgets.

Jo 23:30
And so I’ve created this course as a platform and you get to speak to me, but it isn’t a open forum.

Jo 23:35
It’s not one on one, but it’s coaching services and we do provide that sort of one hour here at hoc.

Jo 23:41
You don’t have to have the full service of a buyer’s agent.

Jo 23:44
You want a buyer’s agent just to attend an auction or just do negotiations, we can do that for you.

Michael 23:49
And we’ll get some more details about that and we’ll have that information in the show notes too if anyone wants to check out the that particular program for first home buyers and, and sort of seek that assistance.

Michael 23:57
One thing I I I got from, you know, property women in terms of what it is, it, it seems to be a group of like minded people.

Michael 24:03
And when you put everyone where you guys can discuss or women can discuss the challenges and see things in a particular way and then, you know, meet certain people and I guess, advance that particular journey that you’re looking to embark on.

Michael 24:15
So and that can be quite powerful in terms of doors that it may open for you and people that you may meet and some of which you currently say that you are still friends with that you met in 2009.

Michael 24:23
So, I mean, other than the obvious, are there any other benefits of engaging in an educational program or a seminar for first home buyers that you’ve seen or you’ve witnessed firsthand?

Jo 24:31
Oh, I think it’s just mitigating risk and, and , and even with clients, it’s like they’ve told me how much money they’ve got.

Jo 24:37
And it’s like you’ve got a lot of money there.

Jo 24:39
You know, you could probably have enough for a deposit for two properties.

Jo 24:42
You know, go and go and speak to your broker and ask the question and get them to do the homework.

Jo 24:46
And then there are things that people want, but they throw all their money in one property.

Jo 24:50
But you could have two machines working for you for that end wealth outcome.

Jo 24:54
You know, it’s, there’s a lot with negotiations.

Jo 24:56
There’s a lot of tactics that you can use.

Jo 24:58
We provide scripts as well when you’re making an offer.

Jo 25:01
Often, I’ll say to my students to say when you make an offer and it has to be in writing, just make it nice.

Jo 25:07
You know, don’t like I’m only gonna offer this much because the pest and Bill report said the gutters are bad.

Jo 25:12
It’s like, no, no, no if you’re buying off an older couple, let’s just say I’ll use that as an example.

Jo 25:16
This is a tactic I did use and this is where I was the third in line in terms of highest number.

Jo 25:21
But we complimented the gentleman.

Jo 25:23
He built the house in the 19 fifties and it’s my client loves the home.

Jo 25:27
It’s so well made.

Jo 25:28
She’d love to renovate it.

Jo 25:29
And he chose our offer over the two developers who probably said, here’s my price.

Jo 25:34
I’m gonna bulldoze it.

Jo 25:35
And a lot of agents will take what your offer is and sit in front of their clients and say, look, we’ve got three offers.

Jo 25:40
It’s this one, this one, this one.

Jo 25:42
But the term and this is where I mentioned earlier if you know how to play the game with terms.

Jo 25:46
But it’s just that, you know, it’s a couple that are perhaps the marriage breakdown.

Jo 25:49
They’re quite keen to have a quick settlement, you know, other people also negotiate to have furniture and things like that thrown into the mix.

Jo 25:55
So there are things that you could do and opportunities you don’t want to miss out on.

Jo 26:00
So that’s the reason that that education platform exists so that we make sure you make a really good buying decision and we do get a lot of off-market deals presented to us as well.

Jo 26:09
So I share that with my database, you know, no, it’s like I don’t have a buyer for it, but look at this cracker of an opportunity here and it’s price to sell and, and I have bought properties like way under what the market value is because of the circumstances of the vendor, you know, under financial constraints or they’ve already bought something else, etcetera, etcetera.

Jo 26:26
So that’s a huge advantage.

Michael 26:28
Absolutely with, with those programs.

Michael 26:30
And, and again, I think it comes back to that group of like minded people in that situation.

Michael 26:34
And so, you know, you’re able to seek that advice.

Michael 26:36
And, and again, I guess, you know, the simple things like just being courteous about how you submit an offer can go a long way and people can often forget those simple things and focus on maybe overly complicated items or ways of doing things.

Michael 26:49
But at the end of the day, it’s just maybe the act of just being nice and complimentary and, and it can go a long way.

Michael 26:53
So I love that example very much.

Michael 26:56
So we always wrap up by asking two questions.

Michael 26:58
The first question is, what’s the number one tip you have for a first home buyer trying to get to the market today?

Jo 27:03
Oh, look, I touched on it earlier.

Jo 27:05
It’s just get started and now get started is as easy and as hard as that is really, but it could be like connecting with yourself, Michael.

Jo 27:13
I had that phone call, have a fact finder and you could sit there and say, look, you can borrow this much as your finances sit today or go away, tidy up your hecs debt, get rid of your credit card, get rid of your car loan, whatever it might need to be, tidy it up, get your taxes up to date and then come back to me in February and we’ll talk again, you know.

Jo 27:29
So you at least know where, what your health check, financial health check is.

Jo 27:33
So you’ve got a starting point and then you’ve got a goal and it’s really important that years are going by faster and faster.

Jo 27:39
The more birthdays you have, you need to just get started and, and not delay.

Jo 27:43
And I think it could be, it just getting yourself financially fit and, you know, better than I would.

Jo 27:48
How scrutinised your spending is with banks as well.

Jo 27:51
So maybe you need to curb back your spending, your retail activity.

Jo 27:55
How many times you might visit Dan Murphy’s or whatever it might need to be.

Michael 28:00
Or the online betting that’s being done.

Michael 28:00
That’s so that’s don’t maybe get off sports bet for a little while.

Michael 28:05
I mean, and, , and find and set the priorities straight perhaps.

Jo 28:08

Jo 28:09
Close the credit cards, you know.

Michael 28:11

Jo 28:11
So basically behave yourself for the next 90 days and let’s revisit those numbers.

Jo 28:15
So that, to me, that’s when I say get started.

Jo 28:19
That is the first port of call.

Jo 28:20
And I’m always telling my clients speak to a broker.

Jo 28:22
You don’t want to go to a bank first up.

Jo 28:24
And they’re like, oh, but I’ve been with Anz, since I was 16.

Jo 28:26
It’s like, no, no, no, no, no, you need a broker.

Michael 28:30
There’s nothing better than as a broker having a conversation with somebody saying, well, I’ve only dealt with my bank before.

Michael 28:34
It’s like, ah, wonderful.

Michael 28:36
That’s, that, that’s a good thing.

Michael 28:38
That’s a, for us, that’s, that’s the ultimate phrase that someone can open up with because it’s like, well, we’re about to introduce you to 60 now.

Michael 28:43
So, let’s see.

Michael 28:44
Let’s see how that goes.

Michael 28:45
And obviously invariably there’s always a better option for them out there.

Michael 28:48
Now, the second question that we have is, , and it’s a new question.

Michael 28:51
It’s not a question I’ve asked before.

Jo 28:52
So I’m scared.

Michael 28:54

Michael 28:54
No, no, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty, actually, I like it.

Michael 28:56
So I think you will too.

Michael 28:57
What do you wish you knew before you bought your first home?

Jo 29:00
I wish I had started earlier.

Michael 29:02

Jo 29:02
Well, there’s always fear.

Jo 29:04
You don’t know.

Jo 29:04
And I just, now that I know what I know, I really wish I had have started earlier and you don’t have to buy where you want to live.

Jo 29:11
You know, I know there’s a lot of other government grants out there that are incentivising you to live in it and all the rest, it’s a false economy if your budget’s only 600,000.

Jo 29:20
But you want to live, you know, near the beaches in Sydney, perhaps invest that money where you’re gonna get a really good rental return and good capital growth and then stay in the area you want to live in.

Jo 29:29
And it’s, I just, yeah, I wish I had a started earlier.

Michael 29:32
Yeah, I, I think that’s a, that’s a great point that you, that you’ve raised.

Michael 29:35
It’s, it’s like, don’t get sidetracked by the government incentives because it may not necessarily be the best option for you.

Michael 29:40
Potentially look a little bit deeper than that.

Michael 29:42
Obviously, for some, it is a good thing and if you need to buy your own occupier or you want to, then that’s fine.

Michael 29:46
But pivot from that initial thought that, oh, I’ve got to go and a lot of first-time buyers will do that.

Michael 29:50
So what grants I get and that’s the first and foremost thing that they’re focused on.

Michael 29:54
It’s like, well, hold on, maybe that’s not the right option.

Michael 29:56
So having that flexible mindset initially, I think can be quite powerful.

Jo 29:59
Yeah, absolutely.

Michael 30:00
Thank you for that.

Michael 30:01
If people want to find you, where’s the best place that they can?

Jo 30:04
Well, at if you come and visit me there and you can reach out on that platform as well.

Jo 30:09
And our advocate property services is the name of the buyers agency that I head up as well.

Jo 30:14
So all online and I’d love to be able to offer that.

Jo 30:17
Just a fact-finding session to see if it’s a service that will fit you if it’s right within your budget.

Jo 30:22
And perhaps the answer isn’t the full buyer’s agent service, but perhaps some negotiation there and we can talk to you about your own personal circumstancess.

Michael 30:29

Michael 30:30
And we’ll put those details in our show notes.

Michael 30:32
So if anyone wants to check that out, feel free to jump on your podcast Bureau of Choice and see those show notes there with.

Michael 30:37
So, thank you so much, Jo for joining us on the show today.

Michael 30:40
And thank you so much for the wonderful insights that you’ve provided.

Michael 30:43
I think it’s been awesome and now listeners are gonna get a lot of value out of it.

Michael 30:46
So, thank you so much for your time.

Jo 30:47
Absolute pleasure.

Jo 30:48
Thanks, Michael.

Michael 30:51
You’ve been listening to the Home Run your guide for buying your first home in Australia.

Michael 30:55
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Michael 30:57
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Michael 31:03
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Michael 31:06
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Michael 31:11
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Michael 31:15
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Michael 31:20
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Michael 31:29
I’m Michael Nasser and we’ll be back next episode covering another step on the journey to owning your first home.